The 4-lane Van Buren Road extension will become a major short cut between Cardinal Drive and Dale Blvd, and Rte 234 and I-95. It will create a HUGE traffic bottle neck at the intersection between Van Buren Road and Rte 234. This intersection is already a rush hour bottle neck that will be made much, much worse by the proposed Van Buren Road extension. A traffic impact study must be done before proceeding.

I agree with Mr May. Already a huge bottle neck during rush hr. Major environmental impact and quality of life issue for Four Seasons at Historic VA. NOT cost effective!

I request that the Board consider a potential negative impact to all county residents when any size commercial vehicle that is operating with mechanical safety issues, or is over weight, or the driver is over the limit on hours behind the wheel uses Waze to identify a way to bypass the truck scales on I95. The hazardous truck traffic from I95 onto Dale Blvd, Benitas Fitzgerald (past the elementary school), Van Buren Road and 234 to I95 will increase exponentially. Even cars and trucks operating within the law will want to take advantage of this route to bypass as much I95 traffic as possible. I request that the Board think long and hard about including this project in the bond proposal. The long term down side to this project far outweighs the near term convenience of creating a short cut from Dale Blvd to 234.

Serious consideration should be given to who will bear the cost of erecting the inevitable sound wall for the development once the trees are removed and the road completed. If I remember correctly the noise level from I-95 was marginally below the acceptable limit 13 years ago. A new study could not be done prior to completion which would result in PWC footing that bill unless it is required from the developer during approval process.

This project will result in a lower quality of life for the Four Seasons Active Adult Community as well as other communities in its path. The increased truck traffic along with the corresponding noise level increase must be considered in deciding if the project is a benefit. Others have raised the increased volume at an already crowded 234 intersection as well as trucks trying to avoid the truck scales. It seems that the benefits of this project needs to be revisited in light of all the approved residential development that has occurred since the project was originally included in Prince Williams Comprehensive Transportation Plan.

I strongly object to this project. The additional traffic (cars & trucks), would increase air pollution and noise. Four Seasons is a retirement community that is surrounded by nature and trails. These would be destroyed. We have started to get wildlife and they would disappear. When I bought my home, in Prince William County, in this neighborhood, it was because of the trees and trails. This project would change the nature of our community and noise and traffic would be unbearable.

Please deny or do not fund this project. It will become a bypass for overweight trucks to avoid the scales. They cannot be be excluded from this road since the lower section is proposed to contain commercial warehouses served by large trucks. Both ends of this project at Cardinal and Rt 234 are residential and will be damaged by noise and vehicle congestion.

After learning of this proposed project, we went to the clubhouse to see the posted site map. It clearly shows this will start at the property next door (17419 Four Seasons Dr.) to us. There must be another solution to this without putting a four lane road in our backyard. We bought here in 2003 and moved into our home in Feb. 2004. When we were purchasing our home in Section 3 NO ONE advised us that this would be the future of our property. If we had been told that in 15 years the county would consider a proposal to build a road in our backyard we would never have considered buying in this development. We, along with many others paid a premium of an extra $15,000 to back up to the woods. When doing so we were assured no one could build behind us, let alone the county might build a four lane road behind us. We have been willing to spend time and money to make the area behind us look nice. We are not the only homeowners that have had to do this. We pay BIO GREEN to seed, fertilize and take care of the property even though it is not our responsibility. We pay to have this area mowed along with our lawn to enhance the property.We have willingly done this because it is our home and we have to look at it. Through the years family, friends and guests have commented about it and said it is nice to see a development that has left trees and made it a lovely place to live. We have put a lot of time and money into making our home better and more valuable than when we bought it from the developer. If you build this highway behind us and the others in this neighborhood affected by this plan, then you will devalue what we have worked to do and spent our money on. It appears that this proposed plan has one purpose to benefit a developer and let him build warehouses which serve no benefit to the our community as well as allowing trucks to easily bypass the weigh station on 95. Route 234 has more and more trucks that do this now and it is has become a dangerous road to travel. When leaving Four Seasons at the light on 234 one must wait to see if the big trucks will even stop. They run the light all the time going above the posted speed limit. They don't even pretend to slow down.
This is our home and we planned to stay here for many more years. It will be very difficult to sell this property to anyone else. We have an abundance of wildlife that live in the trees behind us. We lost a lot of wildlife we used to see when CopperMill was started. They too will be affected by this plan.
The other concern is that this is supposed to be a private gated community. This proposed plan will make it wide open to anyone that wants to come in here from that road. I would hope that there is another way to solve the overcrowding on 95S instead of destroying the peace and tranquility of our neighborhood and property. It is so much better now that there are other places to get off of 95S. Even with the barrier of the trees we hear the trucks on 95 and 234. Imagine what it will be like with a major bypass in out backyard. Jack and Victoria Wagner

The County Board of Supervisor should exclude the Van Buren project from the Mobility Bond Referendum for 5 reasons: • Traffic • Safety • Noise/Pollution • Environment Impact • Cost Traffic – Every evening rush hour the traffic is backed up from Fortuna Plaza to I-95. This situation will only get worse with the extension of Van Buren. If this expansion is to provide an alternative to I-95 the congestion on Dale Boulevard and Benita Fitzgerald will also increase and those neighborhoods will be impacted. In addition, it appears that the commercial truckers have found that Rt. 234 makes for a good cut through between I-66 to I-95 both east and west bound. This will also become a bigger issue as truck traffic will increase with the planned warehouses on Van Buren. This will also affect all of 234 not just here in the Potomac district.
Safety – Of course with the increase of traffic, safety will be compromised. More importantly the extensions will give commercial vehicles who are not operating safely or overweight the opportunity to avoid the truck scales on I-95. Noise/Pollution- Since we moved into Four Seasons seven year ago, the highway noise from I-95 and 234 has noticeably increased. With increased traffic and the removal of natural sound barriers this will make Four Seasons and other residential areas from Dale Boulevard to 234 very noisy. Environment Impact- The wooded area that will be affected by this project is home to a number of wildlife species including deer, foxes, turkeys, osprey and others. One of the top priorities of the Park Bond Referendum is Wildlife and Natural Habitat. By not approving this project there will be $70 million to fund these efforts. Cost – $70 million plus the interest incurred on the debt makes this a very expensive project. I am not sure if these estimates include the cost of extensive noise abatement sound barriers through the neighborhoods from Dale Boulevard to 234.

I agree with my Four Seasons Neighbors. We moved here in 2004 and purchased our lot because it did back up to the woods. They have covered all the relevant issues and concerns for the Van Buren Road Project. Please remove this project from the Mobility Bond Referendum.

I certainly agree with all of the remarks expressed here opposing the Van Buren Road Project. The issues of traffic, both cars as well as trucks including those trying to bypass the scales in the weigh station, the concerns of safety, cost, impact in the various residential areas including Four Seasons should preclude this not only from this upcoming Bond issue.

comment...People who buy homes next to industrial use land pay a lot less for their homes. Municipalities zone to keep residential areas away from industrial areas. This maintains home values and keeps tax revenues high. Putting in warehouses and bypass roads next to lovely pristine communities is a betrayal of the citizens the Board was elected to protect.

Putting in a four lane road to benefit one person, and damaging hundreds of citizens in the process, is wrong.

The wooded area between the interstate and the residential developments barely diminishes the noise and pollution coming from the cars on the highway. Cutting down the existing trees that provide a buffer is unconscionable. When the Copper Mill development and the Lidls were built, every tree and all vegetation was stripped from the properties, leaving Four Seasons exposed to the noise and pollution emanating from the cars on Route 234.

Cutting down the trees and ripping up the plants will exacerbate the air pollution that already leaves a black film all over the houses.

The safety of the residents of the affected communities will be jeopardized as easy access to the gated communities will make a joke of the existing security measures.

Thousands of animals will be killed. Foxes, wild turkeys, scarlet tanagers, luna moths, raccoons, turtles, possums, wood chucks, skunks, deer, frogs and thousands more will be again pushed out of land they have occupied for centuries. When the Lidl's and the Copper Mill development on 234 were built, residents were forced to see starving foxes running through Four Seasons desperate for food because the Board decided to destroy their habitat. Why? Because Aldis, Walmart, Shoppers, Target, and 2 Food Lions within two miles of each other weren't enough supermarkets. The county struggles to provide services for its existing citizens, but the Board never votes against another housing development. Even when the citizenry doesn't want it. And more people means more roads. I think this is very suspicious on the part of the members of the Board. Why do they always vote against the citizens who elect them and pay their salaries? What do they personally get for their betrayal?

I fully support this project, this was supposed to be done when the Housing Development was built at Cardinal Grove. This project will ease a lot of traffic backup/congestion up on Route 1, also lessen the cut through traffic on Waterway and even Minnieville, this new section of road will give travelers another option to get from point a to point b. As we continue to develop and grow as a county we also need to continue to develop our road structure. This is a much needed project that the Housing Developer of Cardinal Grove failed to complete as he had promised.

I stand in full support of this project. The Van Buren extension was part of the original plans for Cardinal Grove and was already approved in those plans. The developer made an excuse that they weren't aware of the variable grade and didn't have the funds to complete the extension, and that's unacceptable. The extension needs to be complete as originally planned or those houses never should have been built. Even the most amateur of surveyors would have foreseen the grading work necessary, and it's time to complete the planned extension. It's ridiculous the project has taken this long. Waterway Drive and Spriggs Road bear a large amount of traffic and opening up Van Buren will ease the flow on those two roads as well as 234 and keep traffic moving. Cooper Mill will bring more houses and more people, and we need more roads.

I write to oppose the Van Buren Road project. While I write as a new resident of Four Seasons, I write equally as much as a long-standing Professor of Economics at George Mason University who has addressed these types of issues in his teaching and research. Since I am unable to attend tonight’s meeting, I am submitting my comments and reactions in this manner.

I should like to start by distinguishing among three sets of concerns in this controversy. I label these “County,” “Developer,” and “Four Seasons,” and examine each concern in turn.

The County seeks to reduce congestion in a particularly congested part of the county. It is easy to think that more roads are the answer to congestion. In some circumstances they are, but in some cases more roads actually worsen congestion. This happens because people change their driving patterns to use the new roads, and the attraction of the added traffic ends up worsening congestion.

The Van Buren Road project is a good candidate for increased congestion because it concentrates congestion rather than dispersing it. The Project would funnel traffic into what is already a particularly congested part of the county’s road system. Traffic on I95, US1, and 234 would converge on a tiny area, which is an almost assured recipe for increasing and not decreasing congestion.

It’s understandable that the Developer would want the road built and is even willing to make some contribution to the cost of building roads. The project would enable him to convert vacant land into warehouses.

It’s equally understandable that residents of Four Seasons would oppose the Van Buren Road project. There are many forms of cost the Project would impose on residents of Four Seasons. Chief among these costs are increased noise and added congestion that residents will experience in traveling between their residences and their destinations. The Project would also destroy a nature trail along with such wildlife as deer, wild turkeys, and hawks that I have often seen during my short time residing here.

One natural way an economist considers such costs is to consider how these costs reduce property values. According to Zillow.com, houses in Four Seasons are valued around $450,000. For illustrative purposes only (as I have done no investigation into the topic), suppose the Van Buren Road project reduces house values in Four Seasons by an average of five percent, which would average $22,500 per house. With 801 houses in Four Seasons, total property values would fall by nearly $18 million.

Hence, the Van Buren Road project would impose significant losses to the residents of Four Seasons in exchange for adding some warehouse space along with contributing increased traffic congestion to an already terribly congested area.

I agree with the comments provided by my Four Seasons neighbors and oppose the approval of the Van Buren Road extension. The increase in traffic, noise pollution and environmental impact should be reason enough to deny funding for this project.

Please approve the Van Buren road extension. This was a project that was supposed to have been completed years ago and will relieve a lot of congestion on other roads. With more houses coming in by Beau Ridge Estates, Copper Mill off 234, and Cardinal Grove - just to mention three new developments, there will be more traffic on the existing roads - which are already crowded. With these new projects and new houses, more roads are needed. This is an extension that needs to be done now.

I fully support the Van Buren bypass. This is an ongoing issue with Montclair, although I understand all of the concerns, Waterway wasn’t intended for the amount of traffic it currently holds. The amount of schools, kids riding bikes we cannot continue to have more cut through traffic on waterway. These plans were agreed upon when the overdevelopment of the area. And our representatives have failed us and not held the developers to their promises. BUILD THE ROAD!!

While I understand the residents of the Four Seasons' concerns (and understandably so), there should be a better alternative to tearing apart their neighborhood, just as there should be a better alternative to destroying Waterway Dr. Those coming off I-95 onto I-1, onto Cardinal and 234 should have a better direct route. Why tear up neighborhoods and instead why not utilize Minnieville Road more effectively? Or why not add more lanes to I-95 (that are NOT HOV lanes), or better yet - why not stop building in this part of PWC?!

Instead of this project, I would recommend adding funding for VRE capital improvements ($20M) and Omniride bus purchases ($20M) and $30M to support Route 1 improvements (widening/ Bus Rapid Transit)

I fully support the extension of Van Buren and urge PWC to connect Cardinal Drive and Route 234. This Van Buren extension has been part of the PWC Master Plan for decades. Approval of the Four Seasons neighborhood development included proffers and agreement for a dedicated easement for this extension as well as funds to be held in escrow for the Van Buren extension and for the intersection with Route 234. As a result of substantial development in eastern PWC over the past 20 years, including numerous new neighborhoods along Rt 234 and Cardinal Drive, including Four Seasons, with no extension, the cut through traffic through Montclair, on Waterway Drive is a safety concern and nuisance. Montclair neighborhood has 3800+ housing units and only the one main neighborhood road, from which all homes are accessed (off of Waterway). It was designed as a neighborhood access road not the thoroughfare it has become. Waterway has become a cut through for non residents. The road is / was not designed as a thoroughfare, there are two elementary schools on Waterway Drive, and numerous neighborhood intersections and crosswalks. Waterway has substantial daily traffic back ups and speeding cars which have only increased relative to increased development and population. Given the plan for the extension was approved back in 2006, with the Four Seasons developer submitting plans in 1999, it is overdue for PWC to diffuse the traffic and share that burden with other neighborhoods and pursuant the approved Comprehensive Plan. For reference of the proffers from Four Seasons development one can search: RE: PRA #PLN2005-00166, Four Seasons at Historic Virginia Proffer Amendment Dumfries Magisterial District. Please respect our community and reduce the through traffic through our neighborhood as we have waited many years while approvals of newer projects have since been planned and completed. Thank you for considering the concerns of many if not most of our 12,000+ neighborhood residents.

Will this project actually reduce the traffic on Waterway? Please hear me out. Since the construction of Lidi the traffic on 234 from I-95 has increased to the point that getting out of the Four Season's subdivision's only outlet has become an nightmare. With the extension of Van Buren the traffic at this point will get even worse and the cut through may not provide any real relief and people who live west of Montclair will still use Waterway as a cut through.

I fully support the Van Buren extension to 234. With the addition of developments, including Four Seasons, additional roads are required. It’s a fact, and ‘not in my yard’ isn’t a valid reason to allow infrastructure expansion to accommodate crowded roads due to new developments. Building this extension has been part of the plans upon which new developments were approved. It’s high past time to move forward with approved plans for the Van Buren extension.

I support the extension. A far greater number of citizens benefit.

Ms. Stephanie Eversley, the Proffers and Master Zoning and Land Use Plan for Four Seasons were an agreement between the Developer and PWC, solely based on profit. The rights of the future homeowners were not a consideration. Agreements can always be changed.

I strongly support the extension. It is long overdue. As a result of increased development, with no accompanying road building for the increased traffic, Montclair has become cut in two by Waterway which has essentially become the 234 connector. The project does not cut up a neighborhood of houses as the current traffic situation does. It is time to spread out the traffic and let those in neighborhoods built after Montclair, when this plan was in place, share part of the load.

I stand in full support of this project. The Van Buren extension is part of the PWC master plan. Waterway Drive and Spriggs Road bear a large amount of traffic and opening up Van Buren will ease the flow on those two roads as well as 234 and keep traffic moving. Cooper Mill will bring more houses and more people, and we need more roads.

I also support this project. Traffic isn't getting any better, and we need more roads to help alleviate. I hope the construction can be done to cause the least disturbance to the Four Seasons neighborhood. But the supervisors need to take care of the larger population and not be derailed by the smaller number of NIMBYs.

I stand in strong support of this project. As a resident of eastern PWC for 25 years, the Van Buren extension is long overdue.

I strongly agree with the extension. I have lived in Montclair for 16 years and have seen the drastic changes due to the extensive development of this are. Why do the people of Four Season feel they should not share some of the over development of PWC. Montclair also has a significant amount of historic land. The community was developed in the 70’s with no intention of being a cut through to 234. With no disrespect to the people of Four Seasons it’s time you look at the big picture and not feel you are above the rest of us. Montclair has its own amount of wild life and is a big sanctuary. Using that as an excuse for not going through with the extension is nothing more than crazy. All of the wild life in the county has been disturbed resulting with me having a bear in my back yard last year. It’s time everyone work together. This county is far larger than an 800 home development.

To that someone that sent me a personal email stating they would send me copies of the Four Seasons Proffers and the Master Zoning and Land Use Plan. Thank you for the offer, but please save yourself that time as I do have them.

In full support of this project and agree with all of the sentiments in favor of building the extension. I have been a PWC resident for 44 years. Long overdue!! Build the road!

As a resident of FSHV I am writing to express my opposition to the approval and funding of the Van Buren road extension. This proposed road will pass directly through FSHV, will result in a significant loss of mature trees, would increase vehicular traffic and noise. I strongly urge you to reject the Van Buren Road extension proposal.

Montclair has been shouldering the burden of a growing county for far too long, one that new developments can’t understand or appreciate. It’s time our county leaders truly see the importance of the Van Buren Road Extension and care about Montclairion voices and the ramifications—both practical and safety—that exist should the this project not be completed. Our mature community and our collective voices have been present for decades and need to be understood and considered more now than ever. The many, many thousands of people that will benefit from the Van Buren Road Extension far outweigh the few hundred that may oppose it. The benefits will be immediate and long-lasting. This road is needed; that’s undeniable.

I’ve lived in Montclair for most of the last 35 years. Development—and by extension, population—in the county, particularly the eastern side of the county, has exploded in that time. Montclair, an older, established community with nearly 4,000 homes, was established 50 years ago. Many decades ago, Montclair and our main road/Waterway Drive was not planned or built to accommodate the thousands of vehicles that now cut through our neighborhood DAILY. Additional roads are desperately needed to ease this growing volume; not only is this the fair reality, it’s also common sense that as more homes are built such as Four Seasons, Copper Mill and Cardinal Grove, additional infrastructure/roadways are also added to absorb the increasing traffic volume. It’s baffling that this is even an issue. No one, even those in opposition, can deny that we, as citizens of eastern PWC, have traffic and roadway issues that need to be expeditiously addressed. One solution that has been on the table—that has ALREADY BEEN PLANNED—for many years is the Van Buren Road Extension. The county would be irresponsible and, frankly, reckless to not pass and implement the Van Buren Road Extension project.

Beyond my immediate traffic concerns, more importantly is my concern for the safety of my loved ones and neighbors. Every day, my young children and hundreds of other children in Montclair walk to and from one of our two elementary schools that are directly on Waterway Drive. By not completing the Van Buren Road Extension, an already congested Waterway Drive will become more so. Cut-through traffic will increase over time and so will the safety threat to our children and neighbors. Not only is the Van Buren Road Extension a needed and practical solution to our growing area, it will help ease and disperse heavy traffic across multiple roads instead of congesting Waterway Drive, solely, AND, more importantly, it will help mitigate safety concerns Montclairions have for our loved ones walking on Waterway Drive. Surely, many of those in opposition are themselves part of the problem cut-through traffic that Montclair has exponentially suffered with over the years and will continue to do so unless the Van Buren Road Extension is completed as planned, as I understand it should have been…

Opponents claim this new roadway would lower the quality of living to new communities. What about the quality of life Montclairions deserve? We’ve been here for decades longer than these new developments. Our Montclair population outnumbers the new developments that surround us. It’s time OUR welfare and our voices were considered. The Van Buren Road needs to be completed as originally promised. The county would overwhelmingly benefit from it. This is fact.

I would like to speak up in support of the Van Buren Road extension. There are two main reasons to support this project:

1. It will simply ease congestion and improve traffic flow in the area. North/South traffic currently cuts through Montclair on Waterway Drive, causing a hazard for the many children who attend one of the two schools or go to one of the two parks that are on Waterway Drive. The Van Buren Road extension will relieve some of this traffic and provide a more efficient route for those who are traveling between 234 and Dale Blvd. This will take vehicles away from residential neighborhoods on a more direct route, and it will likely take local traffic off of I-95.

2. This project has been promised for a very long time. It's understandable that the handful of residents in Four Seasons are opposed to this road. However, it's a fact that Four Seasons as a community would not exist had this Van Buren Road extension not been proffered. Another way to say it: Four Seasons exists as a result of the promise to build Van Buren Road extension. Given that more housing is currently being built in the area, the time is now to honor the promises that have been made, and complete this road.

Per the request of the Board of Supervisors, I'm happy to express my opinion. As a Four Seasons resident, I oppose the project due to loss of mature trees, increased noise, etc. I agree with everyone who has already stated their opposition. I strongly recommend that the project be dropped from the bond referendum.

I do not want thhisroad to have such a negative impact on 4 Seasons. It will seriously impact my home value and contribute excessive noise.

I don't agree with the project as proposed. The project has to be dropped out. i walk our community trail everyday with my wife. Now, I understand the project is to cut off into the middle of the trail. The trail is very important to maintain our health as a senior member in our senior community. The trail is not only for our private property, but it is being used by a large number of our community members as a part of daily life, for which the trail should not be disrupted.

This project will only serve to cause even more congestion on 234 and Van Bruen, drawing traffic from Cardinal Drive and other areas seeking a shortcut. The project should be denied.

I support this project. It was preplanned before Four Seasons. A sound barrier should be included. There are too few alternatives to Rt, 1 and I-95, and our Montclair neighbors should not bear the brunt. I am concerned about the impact on wildlife. In our 16 years in this community, we've seen deer, foxes, raccoons, turtles, and turkeys along with rabbits, squirrels, snakes and bird predators. I desire that some thoughtful accommodation be given to balance the need for this road with the need to preserve the ecology.

Please Vote NO to the PWC Park and Road Bonds. PWC should be paying their teachers much better salaries for all the hard work they do. We should be paying for more STEM programs and teacher technology education programs so they feel entirely comfortable to work with robotics and other high technology, cyber and robotics programs. Our schools have stretched their budgets to be able to afford to send our students to some state and nationwide competitions that are blooming right now. Even so, one grandchild is a member of a great robotics team and the PWC high school said that they cannot afford to send the team to one of the national robotics competitions.

Right now, some of our teachers are having to take jobs as bus drivers in order to try to help to get our children to even get to school because of school bus driver shortages due to the availability of other better paying jobs right now. Perhaps someone can tell school board chair, Mr. Babur Lateef that we don’t need more new roads to get our kids to school when there may no bus drivers willing to take on the poor paying (yet hard job) of taking our kids to schools. Perhaps we can find the money to pay better salaries to bus drivers and to attract new ones. I don’t see parents who are working hard and commuting long hours willing to take on this task in their busy schedules. There would be a lot of yelling if that was suggested. We need to REPAIR the existing roads we have before we build new ones before the county builds new roads. The Feds will only make all of I-95 into an entire HOT paying system if the county is willing to build new roads to replace Federal highways. We need to keep the parks and fields we already have in better shape with new equipment and repair before approving a $200,000,000 bond to build MORE parks and facilities.

Lastly, don’t forget our massive federal deficit - $22 trillion and rising by more than $1 trillion each year. As a nation, we are broke. This over spending will adversely affect many things in the future. Our leaders have neglected to balance the national budget thanks to Congressional runaway spending habits. No use blaming either party, our deficit is too high and growing. This will have a trickle- down effect to the all of us via taxes and also negatively our county finances in the future.

I strongly oppose the Van Buren road extension as planned. My concern is the volume of additional traffic that will congest on ft. 234 between 2:00 pm and 7:00 pm every day. Currently there is gridlock every day during this time.I suggest that members of the board and their staff observe or experience this gridlock before they cast a vote of approval. Thank you.

Yes to referendum. Give the people a voice. Yes to Van Buren extension. Concur with Mr.Starai and Ms. Welch. Yes on anything that increases mobility and benefits parks. I commend and thank my Supervisor, Mrs. Caddigan, Chairman Stewart, and PWCS Chair Lateef for a well run public hearing. Thank you!

As a 16 year resident of the Four Seasons community, I have had the great pleasure of enjoying the natural beauty and the pleasures of nature that the community provides. I am against any development that will compromise what we have, including any loss of trees and increase in noise to build yet another intrusion into the community we purchased 16 years ago.

I'm concerned that this issue is generating stress between the communities of Montclair and Four Seasons. The opening of Waterway Drive was done as a temporary connection between Cardinal Dr. and route 234, to support emergency services to the developing communities on 234. The Van Buren extension was on the long range plan. This activity pre dates the development of Four Seasons, Ashland and Brittaney and the widening of Route 234 and Cardinal Drive.. The 35 MPH speed limit on Waterway Drive was never changed but is ignored by 80% of the cut through traffic. Montclair concerns center on Waterway servicing three elementary schools worth of walkers. The Waterway Drive "access" was presented and updated yearly as a temporary solution until Van Buren was completed. The proffer for the Four Seasons parkland clearly included the Van Burn road easement. The County could have retained that property and built a large lighted ball field. I proposed that the Bond include three provisions. to address the Montclair need and the Four Seasons concerns: 1. No thru trucks from Dale City BLVD to route 234. This will stop traffic skipping around the truck weigh station. 2. A sound barrier be built between I-95 the length of the truck rest area. This will help mitigate the increase road noise from the loss of trees. 3. Amend the County ordnance provision that allows clear cutting of easements to save as many tress as possible. Everyone can see, and Four Seasons residents rightly fear, what was done at Copper Mill Estates on Route 234. I would encourage the Montclair and Four Seasons communities to form a joint committee to advise the County on a solution that the majority can support.

You missed two important points. 1. VA is a property rights state. Once it is zoned for development the developer has an absolute right to build access to his property. Search on the history of the Hilton chapel and you will see the funds for that actually came as a "donation" from the developers award from the VA Supreme Court after he successfully sued PWC for interfering with his development of Dale City. 2. The developer is being asked to share the cost of the completed road by building the first two lanes. This is not a done deal so your comments about being driven by the developer are not factual.

Yes to citizens allowed to vote. Yes to Van Buren extension.

we live in the Four Seasons community and bought a house there because of its tranquility and safety being a gated community. I feel the building of a 4-way highway right behind my house is an incredible injustice to this community and its citizens. Yes, I work and travel on I 95 and see the need for roads. But rather than destroying my neighborhood continue to expand Rt1 all the way down to Stafford County. We already hear the noise from 95 and now have at least trees to create a buffer. That will be gone. The wildlife will be gone and houses will lose their value. We went to the meeting and the board made it all good looking; however, we know what will happen. Taxes will go up, and the standard of living goes down for all of us. However, I'm aware that our voices most likely will not being heard; therefore, if you must destroy everything at least build a barrier wall between this road and Four Seasons to eliminate some of the noise and pollution and to keep folks that don't belong in this neighborhood out of it. Please reconsider building this project. Additionally, I would like to emphasize spending all this money for field houses etc., etc. ensure PWC police officers and fire fighters receive decent pay increases, get more officers hired and have decent facilities. They keep us safe and it seems like no one cares. I know from experience. Thank you!

Jim, I wish the three provisions you propose could be adopted as part of the bond referendum. I would add a fourth, to force the road alignment as close as allowed to the I-95 side of the applicable parcels. Alas, I don't think any of this can be done, either because there is not sufficient time for it to work through the system, or because it's my understanding the Supervisors don't have the decision authority on it. One by one: 1. 3 of the parcels are zoned light industrial and the owner of two of those parcels plans to build warehouses on them. I see no way the county can prevent him or anyone else from driving 18 wheelers on Van Buren Rd.; 2. The road is to be built with both private and county bond money. Neither type will pay for building sound barriers. Only federal money builds sound barriers. If we can't ban trucks, we need sound barriers the entire length from Cardinal to Rt 234, a significant expense. 3. The problem is not clear cutting the easements. The problem is clear cutting the buffer all the way to the property line, which is allowed by the County DCSM Section 800 when grading of the terrain is the issue. This happened to Four Seasons when the Lidls store was built on our southern boundary. It's a disaster for the homeowners that live along that boundary. I seriously doubt the county would take action to change the DCSM to not allow mature trees within the buffer to be cut down under the limits of the DCSM. If forming a joint committee between Montclair and Four Seasons could make all these things happen, I'd definitely vote for that. But based on my understandings, I don't think such a committee could be successful.

I oppose the Van Buren extension proposal as planned. There are only 6 55+ single family house communities in Prince William County. I believe that our senior citizen communities deserve and should be preserved and protected. The Van Buren extension as shown will open up Four Seasons to more noise, cut through our nature trails, and add to security concerns. Many of our residents enjoy walking the nature trails for much needed exercise, fresh air and quiet to reduce stress. As planned this extension would cut through our nature trails in 2 places. Many of our residents use walkers, or mobile devices on these trails. This would make the nature trails useless for many Four Seasons residents. Also by cutting down the wooded buffer area around Four Seasons opens up areas of easy access for crimes. I think there could be a better solution to the traffic concerns than the one proposed in this project as planned.

The continuing destruction of forest land and natural barriers to noise pollution to benefit some industrialist is neither cost-effective or ecologically justifiable. The expenditure of $70 M (Probably more given past history of these type of projects!) at time when funding shortfalls prevent the implementation of higher priority projects is unconscionable!

I oppose the Van Buren Road extension proposal. My wife and I have lived in Four Seasons since 2004. We already have significant noise and air pollution coming from I-95 and Route 234. We are fortunate that there is a natural buffer of trees to attenuate some of those impacts. Removing the trees and adding another major thoroughfare adjacent to our eastern perimeter will exacerbate the adverse impacts on Four Seasons as well as the environment as a whole. Safety and security will be compromised, home values impacted and quality of life degraded. I request the Board of Supervisors reject this proposed highway project.

There are numerous residents Four Seasons Historic Virginia, who oppose the action of the county funding the proposed Van Buren Road cutting through the Four Seasons community, as well as the planned usage of the land adjacent to the proposed Van Buren Road. Though most would agree that growth should be a priority for the county, it should be not at the expense of successful and 5-star communities. Four Seasons residents believe that it is necessary to build Van Buren Road to provide relief to Waterway and handle congestion on I-95, however, the routing of the road and the use of the land, which it cuts needs to be changed. Residents accept the concept of smart growth is vital, but the proposed road should not cut across the existing natural trail of Four Seasons Historic Virginia. Instead, the county should construct an alternative road that will not cut across the natural trail. This area is in a natural state and home to natural vegetation and small animals. The residents enjoy the pristine environment, as they have their walks with their pets. A road cutting across the nature trail be unsightly and the movement of vehicles will create noise and air pollution from vehicles and especially trucks. Even if previous agreements (Four Seasons Proffers) would permit the road to cut across the natural trail, county planners should find a more satisfactory alternative.
The current zoning and planned use for the lands between Four Seasons Historic Virginia and I-95 is much more serious and has much greater implications. It is a serious mistake to develop and construct a truck depot/warehouse in this area. As proposed, this project will mean the cutting of most of the existing trees between Four Seasons Historic Virginia and I-95. Removal of the trees will mean much more noise from the traffic on I-95 and the new buildings will be visible to the residents. Such a project will mean trucks dropping trailers 24 hours a day. These actions will create noise, especially during the nights when it is normally quiet in the community. Within a few years of establishment of a truck depot/warehouse, the area will attract rats and rodents, thieves and vandalism. This use will be poor use of the space and will devalue the existing houses in the area. The residents purchased homes in the community because of the natural environment with plenty of trees, and peaceful area. The roar of diesel engines and the movement of freight will replace peace and tranquility in Four Seasons Historic Virginia. While the residents reject the idea of trucks and trailers traffic in the area, they support rezoning and creating other uses for the land. Creation of mixed housing would be the best use of the land including town houses and single family homes, which would best complement existing housing in Montclair, Four Seasons Historic Virginia and Copper Mill Estates. Alternatively, office buildings could supplement residential housing. Many military contractors and engineering firms desire office premises close to the military installation at Quantico and other military contractors. Another possible could be to install large data centers. These facilities are large buildings, which have few people coming and going. Normally, few people are required to operate them, and once construction is completed, there are very few deliveries. These are options, which would be much more acceptable for the residents. The county must consider these ideas, which would allow for smart growth, growth in the overall tax base and complement existing communities in the area. Due to the current opposition, the county must not support funding this project, but develop new concepts, which will gain acceptance with existing residents of Four Seasons Historic Virginia.

I am opposed to the Van Buren Road Extension project when considering the noise from the traffic, removal of trees and also the disruption of Four Seasons Nature Trail. Has anyone considered the traffic on Dale Blvd. when the tractor trailers will be allowed to cut thru? It comes to a standstill now. Also, please consider these trucks going by Fanny Fitzgerald Elementary School. The intersection at Four Seasons and 234 has become dangerous as trucks go thru the red light on a daily basis. Another consideration is how will the trucks be allowed to avoid the weigh station?

I also oppose the Van Buren extension. The sad part is it is tied to the 123 proposal. Throw it all together to conflate the issue, a typical political trick.

Although there are many arguments for and against the Van Buren extension, I believe the most compelling argument is the FACT that there will be a great increase in the traffic at the light at Van Buren and Rt 234. This will generate a massive traffic bottleneck with cut through commuters and 18 wheelers. I live in Four Seasons and already am bothered by I-95 noise. I shudder to think of the noise increase with a large volume of traffic through Van Buren.

Several years ago I asked my board of supervisors representative about a sound wall. I was told the county doesn't build sound walls.

I am firmly opposed to the through extension of Van Buren.

I am dismayed by the uncivil comments made by many of the supporters of the Van Buren extension. If you can't get your point across without repetition and insults, you don't have much of a point.

I oppose the funding of the extension of Van Buren Road and its inclusion in the bond referendum scheduled for the 19 November ballot. The proposed road would significantly degrade the quality of life for all residents of The Four Seasons, especially those of us nearest the construction. Imagine removing the lush forest which currently serves as both a sound and visual barrier from
I-95. Then picture large trucks traversing the new 4-lane road at high speed and all hours of the day and night. The increase in noise and air pollution along with increased security and safety issues are just a few of our concerns. The increased traffic on Rte 234 should also be of concern as trucks use the new route to by-pass the truck scales on I-95. The proposed road extension will also cut our development's nature trail in two places, destroying this treasured place of respite. The Prince William County Strategic Plan includes in its goals promoting wellbeing for individuals and families and providing a safe and secure community. These goals would be violated for the residents of our small community and the residents near the proposed road extension on Cardinal. We invite you to visit or community and see firsthand the areas that would be devastated by the Van Buren Road extension.

No to the Van Buren Road extension!

It’s a gift of our tax dollars to the contractor who wants a direct line to his warehouse. Nothing more.

It’s too expensive and the county will not benefit. More people object to the expansion than want it and we objectors have sound reasons.

The surrounding area has already taken hits. The Lidl store has created many unintended consequences including trash blowing everywhere. The Coppermill development has decreased our green space and this will decrease it even more.

Those most affected by the road have a right and responsibility to try to keep their neighborhood safe.

The county estimates it will take 4-6 years of construction. That’s a long time of mud, noise, traffic congestion, diesel air pollution due to heavy equipment. No one deserves that.

And, as far as County plans go, they are changed all the time. That’s why the county requests citizen input.

If this road does go through, it should be a toll road.

PWC citizens should not be taxed to subsidize a road so a handful of people and a wealthy contractor benefit at the expense of others.

Chairman at-large Corey A. Stewart and the Prince William Supervisors continuously perform honorable feats. We appreciate your time and efforts.

We are concerned however, regarding the mobility and park referenda as it is at present. The new County Supervisors we are getting will not have had time to study a bond of this magnitude. Now is vacation time and the taxpayers have not been fully educated in this matter. Specifically the Van Buren Road extension.

We are looking forward to a great relief by having the Occoquan - I-95 S corridor and Route 1 corrected.

Regards,

Edward and Mona Phillips

Follow the money. Who benefits financially by the gift of taxpayer funds. One point ignored by everyone. We in Four Seasons pay the same property tax rate as everyone in the county. We require no additional schools, parks and other costly services. We pay the same taxes as those on state maintained roads but we maintain our own roads.

Bottom line, the many, many thousands of people that will benefit from the Van Buren Road Extension far outweigh the few hundred that may oppose it. The benefits will be immediate and long-lasting. This extension is needed and overdue.

Honestly if the Supervisors really want this road give us the sound barrier, figure it out!

I am writing in support of the Van Buren extension. With the continued construction of homes in the area south of Dale Boulevard there are communities being created with the only north-south routes with access to Route 234 are US1 and Waterway. Waterway Drive isn't a straight road, it is a winding road with multiple crosswalks in a residential neighborhood. Over the years whenever there have been major traffic incidents on 95 the entirety of east coast traffic through the area has had to choose between US1 and Waterway as the only alternatives. We need this road.

We at Four Seasons Community were not told of any agreement with PWC and the builder of any adverse changes to our community that would lower property values, change sound barriers of trees and cut into our nature trails. We should have been informed of this by the county and the builder. We are not happy with the projected changes to our beloved community!!!! Van Buran Road can stay the way it is.

What’s wrong with the 70 million dollar Van Buren road extension bond issue? As of today, within walking distance of the only entrance/exit at Four Seasons, Dumfries, there are: 9 motels, 11 fast food restaurants, 6 gas stations (+ one 7/11 w/o gas), a military medical facility, emergency care, the Fortuna shopping center (Target, Panera’s, Starbucks, Shoppers+ other businesses), a new Lidl supermarket, Mt.Zion church (across the street from us, and a very good neighbor), a church with 4,000 members. Nearby, Walmart expansion, Rte 1 widening, Potomac Shores housing and golf resort. A great many of these businesses have been opened since Four Seasons opened. And now, a push to increase the traffic and possibly the reasons for more businesses to want to locate here. Because we don’t live within a single named community, such as Montclair, doesn’t mean we don’t have 1,000’s of residents who will be adversely affected by this extension. All will be affected by the increase and changes in flow of traffic. Mainly those living in Four Seasons, Copper Mill, and our neighbors to the north at the other end of the Van Buren “extension, at Cardinal Grove. Also, folks living in Brittany, and other housing sections in our neighborhood, including Montclair. The idea seems to be to run a 4 lane highway near the back yards of Four Seasons homes, destroy a great deal of the remaining forest, build that “Light Industry” project, which will require access to vehicles at all hours of the day and night, and open up our doors to whoever and whatever gets to move down that road. Increase in crime? I have heard several estimates of what the decrease in property values will be for the residents of Four Seasons, anywhere from 5 to 15%. Great way to treat a bunch of retired seniors living on fixed incomes. On Rte. 234 in the Dumfries area, at certain times of day, we have a line of left turning cars attempting to turn onto Van Buren that can reach from 1-95 to Van Buren Rd. Cars turning in for fast food, medical care, local businesses and housing along Van Buren. At several times during the day, we have what is approaching grid lock from I-95 to Country Club Drive. All of that traffic, west or east bound passes right by our only entrance/exit to Four Seasons. To date, my wife and I have experienced 2 incidences where cars traveling at upwards of 50 mph have blown through, totally ignored, RED lights on 234, even after all other cars going in their direction have already been stopped, and our cars are beginning to cross those lanes. How would it feel to be T-boned by a car or truck doing 50mph? It’s not unusual to see large trucks, especially some of that gaggle of dump trucks that are constantly running up and down 234, also blow through, not yellow lights, but already turned RED lights. That’s what is happening on our doorstep. Our neighbors in Montclair do have a problem. Although I suspect that a good part of the traffic on Waterway is generated by local Montclair residents and school traffic, along with the rush hour commuters, I believe there are solutions to alleviate some of those problems. Reduced and enforced speed limit to 25mph on a permanent basis, especially within the school areas. Additional police enforcement for speeders. Cameras if needed. Speed bumps in critical areas. These are solutions that have worked in other communities. We are living in contentious times. There is no reason that residents of all our communities can’t come to an agreement on how to handle this traffic increase. We live in a county that seems driven to increase development, which means a need for a new concentration on “current resident” friendly infrastructure solutions. Don’t just throw money at the problem. Let’s not talk about proffers and talk more about how to satisfy everyone. Bill Lidell, Four Seasons

I support the Van Buren road extension. While I appreciate and value the concerns of neighbors who feel the traffic will be a cut through in their neighborhood, I also support better infrastructure. The BOCS has approved multiple projects without supporting corresponding infrastructure that has led to increased traffic congestion in other areas throughout PWC. IMO, the BOCS has a responsibility to support and fund infrastructure if they support increased commercial and family dwellings. If the Van Buren extension is not approved as was already planned, traffic will increase and continue to cause difficulties for all residents of PWC. I support measures such as no truck traffic on the extension, as well as noise barriers if necessary, to address the concerns of residents affected by this extension.

I support the Van Buren Road extension. As a home owner in Prince William County, I am in favor of all infrastructure projects that help to alleviate traffic and move people around Northern Virginia. The solution to move people around this growing area requires a multifaceted approach. This is one of many, many projects that will in time help to reduce traffic and help mobility in the area. With recent developments such as Potomac Shores and other housing developments, there needs to be more north/south options for residents besides Route 1 and Waterway Drive to get home. Waterway Drive is a residential road with elementary schools, cross walks, homes and stop signs. It's not designed to be the only alternate option to Route 1. All residents, in all communities share the responsibility for helping to bring better flow for commuters. This is the nature of this area. It's a major transportation hub of activity. We need the Van Buren option as well as many other projects to help facilitate movement of cars and people in and around this area. As the population grows, so should our infrastructure.

I’m strongly in favor of the Van Buren extension. For years, the BOCS have been approving new housing developments along the 234 and I-95 corridors (which is normal and expected in a growing community), without making commensurate investments in north-south infrastructure - which is absolutely government malpractice.

As a result, residents living along roads such as Route 1, Waterway Dr., and even Spriggs Rd are already forced to deal with inordinate cut-through traffic, not to mention what goes on along neighborhoods in Dumfries, dale city and Woodbridge; Rt. 1 is at a near standstill many afternoons. Residents along other roads in the eastern part of the county deal with either dangerous near-raceway conditions on their front doorstep as people treat neighborhood roads as extensions of the expressway; or, when 95 backs up, they find themselves immobilized and their own neighborhood becoming a parking lot.

The VanBuren extension is not an issue affecting just one development, or of one road “becoming a cuthrough,” because the cuthroughs already exist and too many of us live along them. It’s diminishing the quality of life for residents throughout the eastern part of the county. If the need for another north-south street isn’t addressed, the constant influx of new residents and new cars will result in even less mobility and even more dangerous conditions for the people already living along north-south connectors.

I don’t like putting this in terms of personal wealth; but without the infrastructure to support the county’s growth in population, any gains that are made in one community’s property values will be more than offset as everyone else’s diminish. Who will want a house in the county’s new and existing developments if they can’t drive to them without sitting through unreasonable traffic?

This decision is the very definition of no-brainer. Yes, this Van Buren extension MUST be approved. The numerous new developments have put a massive strain on an already inadequate infrastructure - including Four Seasons, Copper Mill, and the many other developments lining 234 from Route 1 to Minnieville Road. it's ridiculous to believe that more and more and more housing can be put up without roads to manage the increases in populations in the 234 corridor. The Van Buren Extension was approved years ago, and it was part of the reasoning behind approval for one of the developments in which many opponents reside. It's not going to "decrease quality of life" - the Extension is a necessary and critical expansion that must be undertaken immediately. And, once the extension is approved, then there needs to be a serious halt to further approval of housing developments along the 234 corridor. Enough is enough. Build the road; stop the insanity; use common sense. Approve the Van Buren Extension.

I am in support of the Van Buren road extension.

Additional roads that take any burden off cut through traffic in Montclair would be welcome. The Van Buren road extension was planned several years ago, and needs to be completed. The additional homes built in Four Seasons, Copper Mill and Cardinal Grove, along with the cut through traffic has significantly impacted Montclair and Eastern Prince William County. It's time to add the infrastructure to support the traffic in the area. The Van Buren extension is long overdue, and will be a welcome addition to the current roads in place.

As a long time resident of PWC I support the Van Buren road extension. I've been a resident of Dale City, Lake Ridge, and Montclair since 1985 and witnessed the massive growth this area has experienced. Other than main roads and arteries being expanded, I feel little has been done responsibly to address all the congestion caused by all the new residential and commercial developments. This area needs more roadways to disperse traffic instead of funneling more cars onto existing roads. Van Buren needs to be built in a responsible manner. It has the potential to help alleviate the already congested Rt.1, Waterway, and Spriggs. This is very much needed.

This road extension will seriously harm people near it and provide no benefit to the county.

How could it? We'll still be overrun with traffic. This relatively short road will not change that.

The wait time will be longer at the light at 234 and Van Buren. There will be large trucks that should not be so close to residential areas. The construction will cause misery for those close to it for 4-6 years. And more misery from the roadway after that.

Montclair residents will still have drivers using their (publicly maintained) roads. It makes no sense to tax PWC citizens to change Van Buren. It’s a total waste of money.

The only actual beneficiary is one wealthy contractor, whose warehouse will be more convenient for him to access.

I support the extension. It was promised to county residents years ago when the development of Four Seasons was approved, and it is badly needed to relieve traffic on other roads, including Waterway Drive. As the county adds more homes and residents, it is imperative to improve infrastructure to accommodate the extra cars on the road.

It is an absolute no-brainer that the Van Buren extension needs to be built now. The states inability to widen the free lanes on I-95 means the only way Prince William Residents can support the future Amazon expansion will be to increase north/south roadways. Heck, a case can be made to build a six lane road. As for the residents of Four Seasons, route 234 was a two lane road, with one stop light between the interstate and Montclair. That was 25 years ago. Now, 234 is a busy thriving roadway that is only going to get busier in the next 20 years. The other reality is that whether its a badly needed road, or more businesses or apartment complexes, the land is going to be developed. Its already zoned for development. So just be glad before long, we'll be able to enter Prince William Forest Park from route 234.

I support the extension!

I wholeheartedly support the Van Buren extension. Continued growth in this county has left our roads terribly congested. Any means to alleviate the congestion is desperately needed. More housing equates to more cars, expanding roads such as the Van Buren extension will provide much needed infrastructure.

The Van Buren road was always intended to go through from Cardinal Drive to 234 — make good on this promise to the residents in the area. The development of Four Seasons includes plans for this Van Buren extension. The opposition from a few within Four Seasons doesn’t even compare how to desperately needed this extension is for the greater area, thousands of county residents would benefit significantly with the Van Buren extension.

Please approve the Van Buren extension. continued growth in this county has left our roads terribly congested. Any means to alleviate the congestion is desperately needed. More housing equates to more cars, expanding roads such as the Van Buren extension will provide much needed infrastructure.

The Van Buren road was always intended to go through from Cardinal Drive to 234 — make good on this promise to the residents in the area.

Please approve the Van Buren Extension. This was always a part of the land development deal for the area and should have never been halted. I support the Van Buren Extension!

While I understand the concerns of those who live in Four Seasons, extending Van Buren Road is a critical safety issue for Montclair. We are a large, family-oriented community with access to three elementary schools within our boundaries. Far too many drivers ignore the speed limits when using Waterway as a cut-through, even when the school speed zone limits are in effect. A number of families have fought for a traffic light or other traffic-calming measures to no avail. The safety of our children and others at risk. Please fund the Van Buren Road extension.

I support the Van Buren Road extension.

Yes on the Van Buren extension. From a county planning standpoint, I think everyone can agree that for traffic to flow, greater access is required. As Van Buren has been on the long term county plan for years, before all the new housing, it is clear from a planning standpoint they understood this. I will reserve my comments regarding the approval of housing without requiring the developers to build up the infrastructure. PWC cannot support these developments without additional infrastructure.

I oppose the Van Buren extension. The extension will cause a significant increase in traffic on Dale Boulevard between I95 and Bonita Fitzgerald and then on Cardinal and Bonita Fitzgerald. That area already has a significant amount of traffic. The extension will then also cause another significant increase in traffic at the south end at Route 234. The traffic on Route 234 has significantly increased in the last few years with the developments that have been built. The traffic at Dale Boulevard, Bonita Fitzgerald and Cardinal and the at Dumfries Road will explode with this extension. The future development for homes, shopping, churches, and offices that are already planned will also increase the traffic and noise.
Please vote NO for this extension.

I live in Four Seasons and strongly oppose to the extension of the Van Buren Road. I apologize for my late entry but I was trying to get through the almost two hundred posts in this discussion. Granted, many were duplicates and some were snipes directed at the opposing side that didn't add anything positive to the discussion.

Even though there are several valid reasons for not proceeding with this project, my main concern is the traffic. It is going to be a total mess unless the intersection at 234 and Van Buren doesn't have a major upgrade. If this project proceeds, I would recommend this be accomplished first. Adding to the increase of truck and bypass traffic is the planned expansion of the Quantico Center from 3 to 5 phases. Additional businesses are being planned to include a Marriott Hotel. Also across Van Buren from the Quantico Center there will be even more development.

As far as this road extension relieving the traffic on Waterway, I don't see that happening. It is a state road and people will continue to use it. Maybe even more now to avoid the truck traffic and bottleneck at 234 and Van Buren.